14. MICHAELTON: Resistance as a compass, owning the performance
“ I think you're afraid of your own success. You're, you're afraid of how powerful you are”. In this episode, I talk to MICHAELTON, a sound artist from Minneapolis, passionate about expanding his exploration of performance, creative empowerment, and the impact of music on our nervous systems. Recorded in the same space where Michael and I first met, the discussion encompasses themes of creativity as a means of survival, the healing power of art, the role of the body in the creative process, and the profound shifts in Michael's artistry. Highlights include Michael's journey from grappling with creative blockages to embracing his musicality, the importance of community and collaboration, and the transformative potential of solitude and self-reflection.
00:00 Introduction to the Vision Seed Podcast
00:54 Meet Michael: Sound Artist from Minneapolis
02:16 The Power of Breath and Body Awareness
05:38 Exploring Creative Roots and Early Influences
09:42 Navigating Artistic Identity and Expression
18:28 Ambient Music and Its Impact
33:32 The Joy of Improvisation and Movement
46:18 Embracing the Creative Process
46:44 Finding Your Creative Path
48:22 Fueling Your Creative Fire
49:14 Overcoming Artist Blocks
51:18 The Power of Community in Creativity
59:54 Navigating Creative Solitude
01:11:28 The Role of Feedback and Reflection
01:16:00 Exploring Creative Intuition
01:23:13 The Source of Creative Energy
01:26:36 Final Thoughts and Farewell
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Michaelton - 7:13:25, 10.27
Quincee: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Vision Seed Podcast, where we gather in the dark beneath the soil with an luminous void from which all creation blooms without our sense of sight. We explore the alchemy of the creative process through intimate conversations with artists and visionaries. Together we embrace the mystery and infinite potential of the unknown.
This is a space to honor the whisper of inspiration in the dance within the blackness that births creative magic. Let's journey into the void.
In this episode, I sit down with Michael. Michael to is a sound artist from Minneapolis who's focused on [00:01:00] artist empowerment and is fascinated by how music and sound can influence our nervous systems. I met Michael last summer when I gave him his first tattoo, and in this episode we sit down in the same space where that beautiful ceremony occurred.
And I genuinely hope you enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed recording it and speaking to Michael. Thank you.
I've been recording these, these candle blowouts and I'm excited to clip them all together and have this like the ultimate blowout sale. I
Michael: love that theme. That's a great, it's a great like drop [00:02:00] in. . I'm gonna start lying down.
Quincee: I think that's a great idea
Michael: because I know I'm gonna end up there. Yeah.
Quincee: All right.
So let's go dark and go. Blindfolds on. The invitation here is just to continue to deepen the breath, and as you do so, I'm gonna invite you to find the area of your body that in this moment is the most sensate.
Michael: Hmm. Yeah, between my shoulder blades, up my neck, there's,
it's purple, it's concrete. There's been a lot of tension back [00:03:00] there that I've been trying to break up and release.
Quincee: Yeah. And something I've been getting curious about is when I find these places of tension or I tightening is asking if there's anywhere. Else in the body that this energy would like to connect with. I'm curious, just for my own sake of curiosity, if this exercise is useful to others, if there's another location that you can discern once to be in circuit or in connection to this purple concrete
Michael: mm-hmm.
Quincee: Shoulder blades to neck area.
Michael: Mm-hmm.[00:04:00]
Yeah. I, I feel like my hands, because I physically can't reach it to fix it.
Quincee: Mm-hmm. So the reason I kind of start us here is just to kind of get us curious and start turning our focus towards inner Listenening at the beginning of a journey and a conversation that will continually point us back towards the body and the energy centers and our experience of them.
So in our conversation tonight, we'll be moving from the root all the way up to the crown. And as we explore each of the body's seven energy centers, we will explore the questions associated with that [00:05:00] center and the themes associated with that center as it relates to your journey as an artist, as a creative.
And I think we're ready to begin. Without further ado, are you ready? I am. Okay. So we'll bring our attention to the base of the spine, this root chakra, this red color. And when we're in the root, we're discussing these themes of safety, stability, groundedness, security, survival. Um, I would love to take a moment to just allow you to explore your creative roots.
When, when did your path of artistry begin and
yeah. What does it look like? [00:06:00] Up until now,
Michael: creativity was one of the only things that I felt that I could do well as a young person is the only thing that I didn't feel like I was kind of inherently, like failing in or doing poorly in. Um, it was something that I could feel success within.
In an eventful and full household, it seemed like a solid path to connect with other people, you know, namely my parents. So I think from an early age I attached to creativity as a means for survival, getting [00:07:00] attention and love that I needed, as well as just feeling good about myself and, and not feeling like I was failing at something like school or, you know, tasks at home.
Um, yeah, being quite neurodivergent, I just struggled with a lot of, a lot of things like cleaning my room. Um, like simply being able to do homework or stay organized. So there was a lot of feelings of not doing things well or not being good enough. And the only time I got really excited in school was when we got to pick our own project.
And of course I'd always make a song or do something creative and that was the only time I'd get excited about a topic or something. It's like, oh, I get to sing about this, or I get to, [00:08:00] yeah. Yeah. There's one memories coming up of, um, I, I made a poem and submitted it to like the school newspaper or something.
I think this is in grade school, and I did it on the computer and I just, I shaped the poem in a circle. I. Like I hit enter at the right time, you know? Mm-hmm. It ended up being a circle. Oh yeah. And I was like, that's how I always thought. I was like, okay, how can I take this to the next level? Because I didn't wanna just write a poem about a snowball fight.
I wanted to make a snowball out of it. Mm. And it made it into like the school thing, you know, the publication innovating the art form. Yeah. And I remember my mom being very proud of that and telling people about it. And yeah, that, I think so much of my creativity and, and where a [00:09:00] lot of this comes from is just kind of seeking.
Love and approval and, and finding a natural ability within myself and connecting those two things. So it's like, okay, I can do this really well. This seems to be my language and it's going to get people's attention, people who I really need attention from.
Quincee: Yeah.
Michael: And that's just the first place my mind goes because it's something I'm constantly observing in myself as an adult and how that shifts as I go through different stages of my life.
You know, what is music? What is my expression of music? Look like and feel like when I'm single versus when I'm with a partner and like receiving love and acceptance versus when I'm seeking love and acceptance, how does it shift? [00:10:00] So I'm just brought back to the household of eight kids and, uh, being the youngest and a twin and maybe feeling lost in the chaos and wanting to stick out in a way. And a lot of musicality in my family as well. Not in my, in immediate family, but in relatives and ancestors. Mm-hmm. So there's always this pride that I was possibly tapping into as well. Like, oh, uncle great uncle T is a world famous musician. This person was a world famous musician, and my mom really respects that.
So, Hmm. Yeah. And this is always something that was supported as well. Um, yeah, so definitely a way to connect with my mother still is I set up, um, a [00:11:00] speaker system in her bedroom a couple weeks ago so she could listen to her classical CDs, and that was one of the most meaningful things I feel like I've done in a long time.
I, yeah, just what it meant to her to be able to listen to her music in a, in a high quality way in her bed, you know, listen to her CDs. So that meant a lot to me to be in, to be in that kind of service.
Quincee: Hmm. Speaking of circles. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Feels like a very, like full circle moment of. Um, like reciprocity and like kind of giving back to moms, which is always such a good feeling of course, but Yeah.
Yeah. Of like, thank you for fostering my, my musicality or maybe like encouraging me to move towards that and here's this. Yeah. But it's interesting what you're sharing about, about creativity as a mechanism of survival growing up [00:12:00] and of receiving that care and love and recognition from, from your family or from parents and a household of eight kids.
I haven't, I haven't tied those two things together yet in my mind. And, um, yeah. I'm appreciating the opportunity , to explore that and , to presence that with you. Do you feel like those elements of survival are still present in your music or Yeah.
Michael: Yeah, I think so. I think a lot of, and this is, this is like, this is shedding like right now, which is why it's so cool to look at and, and to see how everything about my artistry is changing, what I want out of it, what's coming out of me so much is shifting because I'm aware of this and [00:13:00] just like recently entering into a relationship and, um, yeah, yeah, survival.
It's, there's a lot of, there are a lot of ideas of worthiness tied to it. Um, like if I. Kind of like if I'm, if I'm being seen I exist Mm. You know, a tree in the forest kind of thing. Yeah. Um, yeah. My, my space in the local music scene, how other artists are perceiving me, there's always, there's so much of that that's constantly present in my being and in my art.
And it's, it's, it's nice when that can melt away and when the, when the expression is pure, when [00:14:00] I'm not worrying as much about how I'm being seen or perceived and not being driven by that, more importantly.
Yeah. Beautiful. It definitely still, still a driving mechanism. Um hmm. Which, which so much. Yeah. So like that is, I, I was kind of thinking about this the other day 'cause I was, I was judging it a little bit. I was like, I shouldn't be that way. But then I, I kind of asked myself, well, let me think about my favorite song.
You and I were just listening to Beverly, Glen Copeland. Yeah.
Quincee: We
Michael: were, yeah. Imagine if she was driven to make the song we just listened to because she wanted to be seen, you know, because, or like maybe she had a crush on someone and she was like, I'm gonna make this so that they'll like me. [00:15:00] That's actually my absolute best song that I'm like 95% done with.
I'm so excited to finish it and share it with the world. Truly. It's an incredible song and I, I am started it. I made it because my partner at the time. Really loved this artist Nick Hakeem.
Quincee: Yeah. I love Nick Hakeem. Yeah. And I was
Michael: like, dang, I'll show you Nick Hakeem. Yeah. Literally I'll do
Quincee: Nick Hakeem better than Nick Hakeem.
That's right. I was like,
Michael: oh, I want her to feel, we joked 'cause that was her, her hall pass. Gotcha. The was her help pass. So I was like, I want her to feel that way about me. Like, so I, I, that's what drove me to write to, to like, to do that good of a song was for her to accept me and love me. Wow. The way I wanted to feel.
And, and, [00:16:00] and that's just what started the song. And then I ran with it because the song was about what it means to love each other, which is in this context, just being there for each other and holding each other through such a, a tough life. And, and when I was with her, that's what that song meant to me.
And that's what got me through that part of the creation process. And then when I was single, the song was about how I'm there for myself, and it was about a mirror, and I got the song further With that in mind, now I'm in a relationship again, and it has that new wow that, that's returned back to that meaning.
So these, this thing that might be at the root of it, which is survival and acceptance and love, it's just the thing that, it's just the key in the ignition. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. And
Quincee: it can drive you a lot of different places.
Michael: [00:17:00] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's just a thing that revs the engine, you know, and, uh, or puts the key in the ignition.
So I don't really judge it too much in myself as much as I used to. Mm-hmm. Um, I mean, look at any artist. Yeah. Why, why are we on stage? Yeah. We probably wanna be seen.
Quincee: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And fundamentally, we want to be seen so that we may feel a sense of solidity and a sense of rootedness. I, I think that that's, that's fundamental, like to be witnessed is to, is to be provided for, is to be loved, is to survive.
And in a lot of ways, especially like as a child, right. To be seen as to be cared for. Mm-hmm. Yes. Um, yeah. And it's, I really think it's wise and compassionate not to, not to judge the way that survival instincts are tied up in your creative expression. I think that that's like, to completely deny that aspect would not be [00:18:00] serving.
Um, so I, I appreciate the, the braiding in of that 'cause it is fuel. Yes, it's fuel. So I'm just wanting to get a sense for, yeah, for folks who like, don't know what your process or practice is right now. Like what, what is it? What's, what are you doing? What the heck are you doing?
Michael: What the heck am I doing? So I've been on a bit of a side quest, which I realized was, it started out as a, in a similar way, it started out as a big distraction from doing the hard work. And the hard work was me writing songs, singing them, and producing them. So like being the person, you know, and I flew a little too close to the sun and once I started singing on my songs, I got really scared of my [00:19:00] voice and.
And then I discovered ambient music shoot. And, and just a, like I said, a big, I, yeah, I think it was just a, a very convenient thing. It was like, oh, I'm gonna go focus on this now so I don't have to do this hard, this hard work with the vulnerable music. So when I was in high school, I would listen to, you know, at first it was John Mayer, and that, that was the first time I thought, oh, I want to do that on stage.
I see myself, I feel myself doing John Mayer. You know, I had a, I have a similar voice with him too, so I like really heard myself. I wanted to play Guitar loop myself and sing and full circle. I, I recently sang a John Mayer song on stage, and it was one of the, one of my best. Musical moments. [00:20:00] Like it was like, kind of like a sold out, you know, it was at a jam, but it was like a packed house.
I crushed it. I was doing like, I was improvising these runs. Like it was just the best thing I've ever done, it felt like. And I just, I can
Quincee: feel the electricity around that. Yeah. Yeah. And I
Michael: remembered, I was like, whoa. That's what I pictured, that was my first musical fantasy, was doing exactly what I just did.
So that was cool. And that, that evolved for me, you know, looping acoustic guitar stuff. And then I discovered hip Hop via Atmosphere and Brother Ali and the cool local scene here. And
Quincee: Is Atmosphere a Minneapolis guy? Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. Cool.
Michael: Yeah. So that, uh, sound set, the huge hip hop festival that, uh, used to happen here.
Um. Yeah. So I got really into hip hop and you know, of course had my stint [00:21:00] wanting to be a be a Rapper for a short time. But then through that, through atmosphere, I realized because it's very musical hip hop, like the, the, the instrumentation is live. Mm-hmm. Like there's live flutes, there's live bands. And I realized there's a producer behind that rapper who's creating the whole world.
And around that time started hearing trap music, like EDM, trap Music and Skrill and stuff. And it all just kind of came together like, oh, I want to be making computer music and producing music. And so that was kind of, I've had this trajectory as a producer, but always had this nagging feeling that I needed to be singing on my songs.
Hmm. It truly a nagging feeling. Very painful one too. Hmm. Because I would constantly be gaslighting myself, be like, no, like you're a bass. Like you can't, [00:22:00] like where, have you ever heard a bass singer in pop music or something? Like, your voice just isn't right for that. And, and so I was, I'm looking back and thinking of all the excuses I would tell myself, like long-term excuses.
For example, I've studied production in college and I literally told myself, just focus on learning how to be a really good producer. And then when you're really good at producing, then you'll then you can just record your voice too. Dating yourself. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But then I got really good at producing and then I went to go sing and I was like, oh shoot, I should have been working on that too.
'cause now I'm way ahead on production and behind on, on songwriting. Mm-hmm. So it totally. You know, shot myself in the foot there a little bit. So I've been playing catch up and so I started to, to make that music, I started to,, put some of that together. I would sing on a song every once in a [00:23:00] while , and just like really hate it and be really scared of it.
But I kept kind of pushing it 'cause I knew I needed to be doing this. And then in 2020 during the Pandemic, my favorite artist foe,
Quincee: love foe.
Michael: Yeah.
Quincee: I got to see him in Thailand. What? Isn't that crazy? Okay. I wonder Fruit.
Michael: That's crazy. Yeah. Cool. Foe is the best.
Yeah. Foe just makes such organic music. It's gorgeous. Right. And. He put out an ambient album. I had never listened to ambient music before, like intentionally. It was just like a thing, like a genre, a mystery genre to me.
But I thought, oh, I love everything fota and I wanna support him. So I bought the record and I listened to it, and I kind of lied down on the couch listening to it, and I fell asleep to it [00:24:00] and kind of discovered its power. But my, my first thought when listening to that ambient music was, that sounds so easy to make, like stupid easy.
And so that night while my partner was in the shower, I had like 15 minutes. And so I was like, I'm gonna try to make an ambient song. And I did, and it was really easy. And also because all I had to do was take out my expressive keyboard, my rolly keyboard, and sit on a cord for 15 minutes and just lean into it in different ways.
And the sound would shift and, and move with my movement. And of, like I said, , I was like, dang, that was easy. But then on the other hand, that might have been a, like one of my first experiences with meditation was interacting with the sound in that way. [00:25:00] Mm-hmm. And I'm not a, it's funny to say I'm not a big fan of music production because I mean, you're like sitting at a computer clicking in notes and then hitting play and listening back.
Whereas when I'm playing music and interacting with it, you know, there's making music. But this is interacting with music. . What gets created out of that is very, very cool. And so the music's playing me. I'm playing the music. I'm making decisions based on this thing that's in the air rather than I'm gonna make a decision. Okay, I'm gonna hit play and see if that was the right decision. No, I'm going to alter it slightly and hit play again.
So I think that was something I was really longing for out of music making. Yeah, because, 'cause I honestly wasn't confident in my music making. I was surrounded by really, really talented like best friends. And it took me until [00:26:00] like very recently to where I. I was finding my confidence and they're like, dude, we've been telling you for like eight years, like, you're sick.
I was like, oh, I just didn't believe it.
Quincee: Oh, one thing that this is, um, bringing in for me is just this theme that's been appearing through the last several episodes I've recorded, but art as a mirror. In allowing yourself to go into this ambient realm and make music in real time and be in this feedback loop with it and this mirror loop with it.
You like your own power was revealed to you it seems, and like a new sense of self with, with art, with music making. Wow. It's interesting, the way it expresses in music is very immediate, and I was, I was relating it to painting today.
The, the mirror that's provided by painting is very slow, um, and almost like a time lapse, but in music mm-hmm. It's, it's this immediate.
Michael: Are there, are there [00:27:00] any through lines
Quincee: yeah, for sure. , That mirror that our art provides for us into our own self is what keeps us coming back and is , the healing aspect of art.
And I think that that's something that I'm particularly interested in in the art therapy domain. It's like how does our creative expression reflect back to us that which we most need to see. Um, and how does that witnessing of oneself begin to soften and heal? That's a through line.
Michael: Mm hmm.
Hmm.
Quincee: Right. Which I
Michael: am excited to get to in a little bit.
Quincee: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah.
Quincee: We talk about that in the, the war of art, right. That book Yes. Where your resistance is actually really important and it's your fuel [00:28:00] and it's life force that can be leaned into and transmuted.
Yes, yes, yes.
Michael: It's just all those times where I sang on a song and, and didn't like what I was hearing like that kind of younger survival instinct of getting this really negative feeling about what I was making and
I was just like fighting with myself about it. Like, Noah, this is good. No, it's not. It's different. Like it was just a battle for so long, and I'm not even kidding. I win the battle every once in a while, but I kind of had my big victory maybe two weeks ago. Whoa. Like, like put vocals on that song I've been talking about. Yeah, it, it sat there for like three years.
Quincee: Whoa.
Michael: Okay. I made the chorus. 'cause choruses are easy. You get to be kind of distant with the topic.
You can layer your voice a bunch so you can hide behind that. But the verses that, that's the vulnerable part where it's like, okay, now here's me exploring [00:29:00] the concept with my own experience. Whoa. Like maybe a couple vocal layers, but it's just me out there. But with this song, I. Yeah. And I, I initially wrote it in a key that wasn't great for my voice too.
So whenever I tried to write something on it, I was like,
Quincee: squeaking, scratching your way through it.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah. I was like, this is too low. I have to, like, I couldn't sing this live, you know? Yeah. Um, and recently I, I kind of tricked myself intentionally into being able to do it, and I did it and I love it.
Um, but going on, going back to that path with, with ambient music, um, the ambient music path was, I'm trying to think of a way to explain it. It was, it was like putting on kind of a, a different identity and getting to go through life and learn life life's lessons as someone else. I got to, [00:30:00] 'cause my ideas were racing.
When I first started doing this, I was like, okay, ambient music. It helps me relax. Why is that? So I got really, really into and obsessed with how ambient, or just how music, and especially ambient music relaxes the nervous system. Why, why, psychologically, physiologically, neurologically. Mm-hmm. Like what's going on in our human evolution that has caused sound to impact us in this way?
And I, I really attached my identity to that topic. And, and because it was easy and it was exciting and I really cared about it too. And so I immediate, like, I think that first night that I made that ambient song, I came up with the name Digital Nap. And I came up with my release strategy for Digital Map.
I wanted to make 20 minute eps [00:31:00] where there's like five songs that all flow into each other and then each EP flows into the next. And I was like, it's this infinite thing I could build and just keep building onto it. And like I said, it's kind of this identity I got to occupy to learn life's lessons and life being, how to exist in the music industry.
So I got to release music, I got to do artwork, I got to do the copyright. So it was like being an artist without the vulnerable part of it being my art. 'cause ambient music isn't, I really don't put that in the same category as an artistic expression. Mm. Interesting. Yeah. It's, it's more, 'cause it's not me expressing something that's within me, it's some, it's creating a natural phenomenon that is a vehicle, something that holds people.
Ah, yeah. Whereas me, the human singing about human [00:32:00] concepts is that's way more artistic, or that's how I categorize it at least.
Quincee: Yeah.
Michael: Which is why Ambient music's been so easy, because there's, I, I say this all the time, there's like zero vulnerability and ambient music for me because it's just Yes. Play the still music, you know, play the chord.
It's in service, and, and I'm a very service oriented person, so, right. Yeah.
Quincee: Yeah. I, I also wanna like challenge, I, I mean mm-hmm. It's definitely still a very creative expression, but I definitely, I, I hear you in, in the, it's less vulnerable and less raw. Um, but then again, I think about the evolution of an artist, like maybe Andre 3000, like where he started in this, like really expressive, whoa.
Way. And then I wonder if it feels like the inverse for him, like coming into this like more minimal like flute album that he just released. Is that more vulnerable in the, in the, uh, eyes of Andre? [00:33:00] I'm not sure, but
Michael: that's an amazing shout out as well. Yeah. Shout out to
Quincee: Andre, but, um,
Michael: yeah, maybe he, yeah, he literally said, I don't have anything to say anymore.
Quincee: Like, and how beautiful. Yeah, how vulnerable, how tender,
Michael: but yeah. Shoo. Yeah. Wow.
Quincee: Okay. Michael Tin, we gotta move up. We gotta bump up. What's up? Let's bring our attention to the, the sacral, this orange color. I feel like we've already begun to talk about the most fluid or pleasurable or joyful aspects of your creative practice or process.
What's turning you on creatively?
Michael: Mm. I experienced this last night, so it's fresh. Yes. And I'm pretty energetically. Um, I'm a bit drained because last night was my birthday party and up really [00:34:00] late, so lack of sleep.
But I put out so much energy from my body because I got to, we did, I did like a roller disco thing, so it was like roller skating with DJs and also live jamming and there was. Electricity shooting out of me last night. Why was that?
And I, I was skating. I was dancing, I was DJing, and I got to jam, like one of my favorite things to do. And so this kind of answers the question is to improvise, right? Like to interact with music as it's happening, to interact with other humans through music as it's happening to combine minds and spirits, to create something, to make decisions as a group, as a unit.
Mm-hmm. Just, you know, like your brains become [00:35:00] one. And then to kind of combine the instrument that I'm most confident with, which is my voice. Yeah. Just being the singer in an improvisational like jam setting, like on some funky stuff. That is my happy place. That's where the energy shoots out of me. I feel like nothing else makes me feel that way afterwards.
And so I got to do that while I was roller skating and like dancing and moving my body and in my best outfit. Like I just felt so good surrounded by my friends. Like we're just all dancing and, and rolling around. And there's some brilliant musicians there too, like a saxophone player and bass player.
And yeah, and like interestingly, the fact that I was moving my body on the roller skates too helped the ideas flow out of me. Yeah. I felt zero blockages [00:36:00] with my creative energy, like I was.
Quincee: That's pretty ecstatic. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I
Michael: can always, when I'm improvising and singing, I can always come up with a lyrical concept.
Expand on it, and then by the end of the song, return back to it in a kind of book endy way. Mm. I love doing that. And it always happens. So satisfying. And I just trust that it'll happen. And it happens. Like I always do, like a sick little lyrical thing that ties it back and I was like, nah, that's sweet.
But last night, even more so like the, yeah, the ideas were crazy. Um, and I think it was because I was moving my body in a very fluid way that helped. Yes. Yeah. Just , the lyrics came out fluidly too, and the, the melodies. Oh. , So yeah, that's, that's the pleasure center is it's the combination of I get to play my best instrument, which is my voice.
I don't feel like when I play guitar and I jam on guitar, I'm like, oh, I [00:37:00] only know the pentatonic scale. And I'm feel very contained with that right now. And I wish I could just like rip harder on it and go crazier. Um, but with my voice, it's just a direct line between my brain and the music that comes out.
There's no like, hands involved, you know? There's no intermediary. , So I get to use an instrument confidently and honestly, like being the singer and like being the one kind of center stage,
Quincee: it feels really good. Yeah. It feels so good. Yeah. I can feel the electricity and the energy like shooting out of you as you, as you describe this experience.
And I relate. I love being like the front singer in the jam. It's the best feeling, like mm-hmm. I want, and you've helped me identify that I want more, more of that, so thank you. Yeah. Um, hearing you talk about it has made me remember how much I really. [00:38:00] I really want to sing with people and jam with my voice.
Um, and I also like, I feel like maybe you're unintentionally like, plugging the work that I do because you're like, yeah, it's crazy. Like, moving my body like really helped me a lot. Creative flow and I'm like,
Michael: wait a second. Wait second. Yeah. Big time.
Quincee: If ever there were a statement I agreed with more, uh, yeah.
That, that is it for me. I, I think that , our body holds, um, just unimaginable wisdom when it comes to helping us navigate our creative paths and our queries as creative people.
So beautiful to, to enforce that and reinforce that link in yourself last night and sounds so playful.
Michael: Yeah. Why do you, what are, what are some reasons you think movement unlocks [00:39:00] that flow?
The thing that I keep coming back to, because I've been in this question a lot recently, is that our blockage comes from a state of overthinking and being in the head. And oftentimes what happens when we get stuck as artists is that we brainstorm harder or we keep coming back to problem solving mind and thinking mind.
Quincee: And that is a vicious cycle. And I'm really curious about the way tapping into the body and moving it and breathing it, can open up new channels and intentionally resting too, of course. Can allow amusement to flow through us in a, a new way.
Michael: Um, so that's one component I think [00:40:00] like doing what we did in the very beginning of this episode.
Right. Like kind of a drop into the body. Mm-hmm. If we like scan the, scan the field of sensation or awareness in the body and find sensation. And then become curious and turn towards that sensation as if it might just have something to teach us. And it might just have something to say. We're going to find something.
And this is kind of the Rick Rubin talks about this experience kind of as like becoming the detective. You just start looking for clues in yourself. Mm-hmm. And following those clues. And before you know it, you've arrived with some sort of narrative arc or some sort, sort of textual or, um, formal experience really.
And if you can create from that place, you [00:41:00] end up creating those things that are a direct mirror that you look at and go, oh, I, I reflected myself out into this piece. Um, so that's kind of, I could go on and keep talking about why I think. Somatic awareness and why I think yoga particularly is valuable to us as creative people.
Um, but I think you also just described it perfectly well, it doesn't have to be yoga, it can be rollerblading or roller skating. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or driving. Or driving.
The goal of my ambient music was to create a force field around consciousness so that the, the mind didn't need to reach out for something to think about, and the nothing could kind of reach in to grab attention.
Yeah. That's the sweet spot I was trying to create so that people could then meditate in that. And I got that concept from driving, because when your autopilot is engaged, when you're driving, [00:42:00] we have , our best thoughts, our most uninterrupted thoughts and explorations when we're driving on a road trip or.
The shower's another great place.
Quincee: Yes. I was just gonna say.
Michael: Yeah. And so for me, it's like anything that occupies the mind and I don't know what, which part of the mind, like, you know, it's the kind of prefrontal cortex or whatever, right? Like something that's occupying the, the brain so that it doesn't go into fear thinking mode or overthinking like you've identified.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and I just encountered that, um, a couple weeks ago too, where again, like, I don't like producing music because you have to sit down and sit at a computer and like type, type, type, you know . That is the best way to not write a song for me, is to try and sit down and write a song.
Yeah. And I've known this logically and I finally put it into practice a couple weeks [00:43:00] ago where. A song idea came to me as it does sometimes, many times a day. And I had enough bandwidth to pursue it, which is great.
And in this case, me being in a new relationship, I, I kind of chuckled to myself the fact that I was making my bed and the other half of my bed was always unoccupied. And so I was like, oh, that's a good little lyric idea or something. So I started singing. I was like, yeah, the bed is made and one side stays the same and it will keep his form till you stop playing games, you know?
And it, it started to come to me. And so I went and I went and sat down at my computer to write those lyrics down, but then they stopped. Mm-hmm. And I was just thinking, oh, this is not how I'm gonna write this song. It was a Saturday morning, so I, [00:44:00] of course had to go grocery shopping and so on my way to one of the grocery stores, just in the car singing out loud, not writing it down, but writing each line line by line, by memory.
Mm-hmm. And figuring it out. Yeah. Actually by sounding it out and not writing it down and thinking of words that way. And I had written one verse when I went to one grocery store, and then when I went to the second grocery store, I had written the other verse and just problem solving and puzzle solving. Out loud musically, which has always been the best, like the best ideas that sound the best too. Yes. Because when you write, when you write lyrics, it doesn't, it's not necessarily gonna sound good. Yeah. You know, if I, if I write, I fear you fade into the blue, so what should I do?
Saying, I fear you're fading to the blue. You know, it's nice alliteration. [00:45:00] Mm-hmm. But it's hard to sing Fs back to back like that. Mm-hmm. But if I, if I improvise that, I would've probably said, I see you fade into the blue because it just comes out better. Mm-hmm.
So I just realized that just driving to the grocery store, just the driving or the, or the doing the dishes is something I was doing as well before gonna the grocery store, doing the dishes and singing out loud. It's the only way from here on out. Honestly, I'm not, I would never try to write lyrics again.
I just have to just build on them and improvise them.
Quincee: That's a really powerful tip. Mm. And I think, like, as much as I hate to say it, , one of my guilty pleasures, especially when I'm feeling like stuck with the painting, is to , put on a show in the background.
Michael: Mm.
Quincee: It's a similar principle, right?
Like if I can engage my default mode with a, a show or with some dialogue in the background, I find that my inspiration can sneak in the [00:46:00] back door and I'm not in this place of like overthinking the brush strokes or being like, oh, maybe I didn't wanna make that, that color.
Like I can just kind of tap into a different zone. Interesting. And I think that, yeah. It's, it's a similar, similar sort of thing,
Michael: something about the stimulus. Yeah. Something
Quincee: about it
Michael: you're not looking for something to be scared about. Yeah. Or like over analyzing.
Quincee: You're not making your channeling. Like it's, there's a difference there. And I wanna make that pathway more well worn and help other people get into that groove, of channeling instead of forcing.
Michael: Hmm. So I've, I've known this was the way I needed to express, to get the best results. What's your like best path to, to your creativity? What's the way for you, you know?
Quincee: Oh my goodness. The way for me is certainly always changing for me it's less about like a formula and a [00:47:00] little bit more about. The deep listening during the process. If I'm at the canvas and I'm noticing like, whoa, like I'm, I'm really in an overthinking space knowing what tools are in my toolkit and then responding appropriately.
, Of course, I think that listening to music, Wally Pain is really helpful. Usually ambient, um, to kind of get me into a trance or flow. I'm obsessed with Tibetan bulls
the gong is a another way. Had some of the most profoundly deep meditation experiences playing or listening to a gong. And um, I'm just curious to continue cycling through these different ways that I have.
But of course, I think the best for me is if I can, in an ideal world, before dropping into a space of creating, whether that's painting or [00:48:00] music, is getting really deeply into my body, that usually looks like some shaking and some stretching and some deep breathing. And if I can do a Kundalini crea every morning, then I'm in a better place to create, I find, and it's really easy and natural to drop into some writing or some drawing after that.
So. Hmm. The toolkit is evolving I think that we've kind of already played a bit in the center in terms of talking about like confidence and, and kind of this capacity to be front and center and, but we're going to shift our attention to the solar plexus, what right now is fueling your fire creatively and what's empowering you to keep creating?
Michael: Oh, that's so interesting. Hmm. Because it's,[00:49:00]
yeah. I'll try to put it into words. , I've always wanted it and I finally know I can do it. And so the fire right now is, is knowing I can do it. Mm. And someone said to me within the last year, and, you know, I broke through my artist blocks.
Quite recently, and there's been a lot of knowledge and insight and intellectualization of these artist blocks and Yeah. And someone close to me asked what success would look like, and I mentioned that it would look like me being on stage with my friends and being a part of their music and each other's music.
And she was like, why don't you envision yourself singing your music as success? And she's like, [00:50:00] I think you're afraid of your own success. You're, you're afraid of how powerful you are. Mm-hmm. And maybe the lack of control you would have over the future of such power. You know what I mean? Wow. And what's driving me right now is instead of being afraid of that power, being excited about it because I accept it and I'm, I, I believe it. I brought it into some spaces. I tested it and I suppose I needed enough external validation to start to believe it.
And, um, something as simple as recording myself on stage in front of a packed house, killing it, and hearing people hollering in the crowd at me, like [00:51:00] seeing that on video. It kind of like helped me believe it. Really, really interesting. I just, I, I know my abilities now and I'm not afraid of, of what will happen when I make this music
Quincee: I love that. Do you have a sense of what precipitated that, other than that conversation with her? Like, what do you credit
Michael: so, so many teachers? Because I didn't do well in inherent systems. I didn't accept them from an early age. Like I was protesting the government in high school, like, uh, left the church in high school. I just like, I was like, oh, school clearly isn't for me 'cause I'm doing terribly in it, so what else isn't for me?
So because of that upbringing and that childhood, I never accepted a normal job, a normal life, anything like that. I remember like staying up [00:52:00] late at night and just like stressing over should I be an artist, you know, like, is this a career move? You know? And, and just, I credit myself for never accepting a different path, like not giving up on it even though it's been nearly impossible at times.
And the pain was so strong, the existential crisis that I felt every time I tried to create something was so strong. Yeah. But I didn't accept that. And it led me to read Steven Pressfield, to read Julia Cameron, to read these, these books and to talk with people and to do the work and, and figure out what the hell is going on in my head and my heart that was preventing me from creating And.
So I, I could do, I could intellectualize [00:53:00] this for days. Yeah. You know, I could problem solve for days, which, first of all, I'm a man, and second of all, I'm like a superman when it comes to having a problem solving brain. So I could do that all day. I wanted to be a detective when I was a kid, if that is any insight.
Yeah. Um, so just not giving up and, and, and giving myself
it, it wasn't, it wasn't necessarily the insights of these books where it was like, I don't know, it, I was, I was experiencing a rock bottom, which happens about once a month, where I just am. So, like I go to make music, I put it off till the end of the day, I don't have the energy and then I don't make music, and I'm like, fuck.
Like, it sucks. And then like, yeah, like once a month I would get to the [00:54:00] point where it's like, what is, what am I doing? Like I'll, I'll try anything at this point that's rock bottom. It's like I'll do anything.
Quincee: Right.
Michael: And I kept seeing this, this jam called the Cherry Pit on Instagram. You know, pulled up my phone and I saw that post on Instagram and I was like, Ugh.
I just like had the same reaction I always have to it, which is this visceral like, oh, I'm not going to that. Like, ugh. And I was like, wait, what am, what am I feeling here?
Quincee: What is this really?
Michael: Yeah. I was like, why? Why am I judging that? Why am I judging myself if I went to that? And I just started to look into that feeling more.
It was like if jealousy and resentment and. Self-loathing and fear all had a baby. That was what I was feeling and I was, then I remembered one of the insights, resistance is a compass. Like, why am I so afraid of this? [00:55:00] And I kind of just realized like, oh, damnit, that's where I need to be.
Yeah. That's where, that's where the answers are. That's where the feeling is. And I made the decision in that moment. And the second I made that decision, I just immediately started thinking, oh, what am I gonna play?
What am I gonna sing? And all of the sudden, all of my songs that I've ever made, I fell in love with them.
Quincee: Wow. I
Michael: stopped hating them. Yeah. Because I, I pictured myself singing them in front of a, of an audience, and it made me love them and
Quincee: Wow. What do you think that was? Do you think it was that they were less about you suddenly and more about, like, more about sharing, less about
Michael: Yes.
Yeah. Yeah. I, I'm, this happens regularly. I will [00:56:00] about once a day I think, I'll be thinking of a song I'm working on or just like beatboxing an idea and there'll be a moment where I picture doing that with and for people, and it moves me to tears every day. Whoa. I just, the sharing and the being seen and the creating with other people.
Even if it's not in front of an audience. But creating with my friends like that is so powerful to me. It, it really makes me emotional. Ooh. And yeah, so I, I, I brought, I went to the jam , and I've been going ever since. And it, it, it wasn't perfect at first, but it was a space where I got to bring my songs that I wasn't fully confident in, and I got to test them out in front of a crowd.
And then I had my answers. Like there was feedback [00:57:00] and, and then I also got to learn other lessons too, like. Oh, I was confident in my singing, but then a bunch of really good singers went on after me and I started feeling less confident.
'cause I was comparing myself. Maybe I shouldn't be a thief of my own joy by comparing myself to others. Mm-hmm. You know? So there's lesson after lesson, week after week, but of course these lessons weren't coming from reading a book and intellectualizing the lessons came from doing and experiencing and, and learning in real time.
And now I'm at the point with these jams where I'll come up with lyrics and we just made up the song on the spot and figured out the music parts on the spot in front of a crowd.
And that's what I've been doing lately is just
Quincee: letting the improvisation tell you how it wants to make the song.
Michael: Exactly. Dang, I'll bring the lyrics, and let's figure this out together. I love
Quincee: [00:58:00] that. I love that. Yeah.
I love this idea of letting the spontaneity, uh, choose the final form in a way.
Michael: Mm-hmm.
Quincee: I think about that in calligraphy, you know, as a calligrapher you're like. It's one gesture defines the entire piece, a split second of the brush stroke, that that is this final form.
Michael: Mm-hmm.
\ Again, because if approval is my fuel, then putting myself in front of. The best musicians in town in a like high stakes like jazz jam setting. It pushed me to do my best and then I got to see how good I am, which then gave me confidence, like it's that permanence, the risk, the thrill, and then the trust.
Beautiful. Yes. What is your [00:59:00] experience with kind of re like leaning on others? Because in these jam settings I'm like, all these other musicians are doing, doing the pieces that I need. You know, like they're doing the complex chord changes that I wouldn't have thought of. They're like, it is all coming together through other people.
And with, with visual art, it seems like usually more of a solo uh, expression. Have you experienced. Your practices in community, like collaboratively.
Quincee: I love that you are reflecting questions back my way. . It feels really generous and, um, I feel like sometimes I definitely hide behind the safety of being the interviewer and not today.
I love that you're challenging me. This is something that I've definitely like. I've begun to feel [01:00:00] a little bit of fomo, thinking about how delightful it must be to co-create or feel supported in community with creation.
I've always, always wanted to be in a band, like I've always wanted to be a singer in a band. That's something that like, is definitely still very alive in me, and it's getting louder and louder and louder. Like as I step more and more into my creative path and work on cultivating my creative energy consciously with Kundalini, with breath work, with what I'm creating with Vision Seed.
It's, it's becoming pretty indelible like this needs to happen and I don't know when it will be. Um, but certainly I, I definitely like with painting feel this sense of. Really liberating solitude in [01:01:00] the, in the gift and then in the shadow, some loneliness, some isolation, some, some like fear that comes from that of like, it's just me and the canvas.
And then other times it's like, oh my God, it's just me and the canvas. Like this is ultimate liberation. Um, so I dance between those two, certainly throughout the process. And, yeah, I'm excited to continually discover art forms where I can collaborate. But I've loved singing with people. Um, I've loved, I love harmonies.
I'm a big harmonizer. And so certainly these will eventually lead to some, some deeper explorations in, in music. But, um, not sure what format will take yet.
Michael: Hell yeah. Well, we should jam some time. I
Quincee: would love to sign me up.
Michael: Yeah. I always had a narrative that still [01:02:00] exists with decent strength that I'm not a good musician because I'm not super proficient on any instrument. You know, like I never got deep enough with my practice, like with practicing guitar, practicing piano, so I.
I always had that narrative. And so then that narrative led me to like always be like, oh, I need, like, this song won't be good until I get my friend Sammy to look at my drums and help me with my drums. Or there's always like, I need, I couldn't do this alone. And that's been shifting a lot lately too, which I'm very happy about.
But I noticed it was in other areas of life too. Like I, I don't really, I can't watch TV or a movie by myself and then either. Yeah. I would never. Right. Well, well, but except
Quincee: for if I'm painting, then I'm not by myself. Oh, that's right. It's me, [01:03:00] God and the, and the show. Yeah.
Michael: But then I, I kind of extended it outward even further.
And I've been, I living alone for the first time this year too. And I was like, wait a second, do I know how to be alone? Like, can I do anything alone? And that was literally something I had to learn to do this last year. And so I realized my, my musical expression and my validity and confidence was also coming from that much deeper space of never learning how to kind of be with myself.
But I, I've proven to myself that I can make good music by myself, and when I bring in my talented friends, it just takes it to Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I kind of, I know I can, but I, I really don't wanna ever, I [01:04:00] make a song without having. Some of my friends touch it 'cause that's so beautiful.
They just bring, they, they just multiply it so deeply. Yeah. Ooh. Yeah.
Quincee: I'm feeling the love. I think we've naturally started to move into the heart.
Michael: Mm-hmm.
Quincee: Just you sharing that,, it is the, the calling on support and it is the bringing in of other beings and other souls to this creation process that makes it so worthwhile for you.
And also creates like safety and connection. And when we're in the heart, we talk about these themes of, of love and community and connection and what feels healing to us about our, our process. And I'm starting to get a glimpse of that. Like the way you have healed both relationally and in solitude with your music and like the way that those actually mutually support one another. Is there [01:05:00] anything else when it comes to the heart that you wanna share? I guess specifically I'm curious, like I,
Michael: Hmm.
Quincee: What, what do you devote your, your art to in this moment? Like, what is it for
if it were a gift to something or someone to, to whom or to what?
Michael: Hmm.
I feel like it's, I may have touched on this earlier, I just, I've, it's what I've wanted for so long. Mm-hmm. And so it, I'm. It is just a major act of love to myself. It's like I'm finally giving myself what I've always wanted by, by doing this hard work and devoting myself to it. And it's still still such a long road but, we're on the path. You know, I've, I've [01:06:00] broken through recently, but when I say I've broken through, that just means I'm not doubting myself in a debilitating way anymore. It's, it's funny. I'd like to, I'd like to say I'm doing it for the earth. I'm doing it for like, all these other things that aren't me. But no, , and while we were roller skating last night, and a friend noticed and told me, she was like, ah, you're such a performer.
I just love that. You just like, because I was literally skating around singing, doing dance moves in my outfit. And she was like, I just love that you're a performer. And I, I kind of judged myself for that. I was like, oh, no. Not me. A performer. Not me. I don't wanna be, no, that's, I don't wanna take up space and want attention, but I mean, I, I said earlier, I was my most energized last night because I got to [01:07:00] do all those things and yeah.
It
Quincee: feels good.
Michael: Yeah. It just, it feels, it feels good to, to not have shame around wanting something and doing what you want and doing what you love. Yeah. And the judgment is just kind of melting away.
Quincee: If your art making and your creative expression were just for you, would you deem yourself a worthy benefactor?
If you were the only person that ever, you know, really benefited from it, would that be enough?
Michael: Hmm. That goes, yeah, that goes back to the question of is it worth watching a movie with myself that there's no one there to laugh with? Yeah. This is
Quincee: existential for me too.
Michael: Yeah. And that's, that has been a huge, huge question for me this last year is, yeah, , can I [01:08:00] recognize myself as like a worthy existing thing? Um, I feel like, and I've, I've explored this a lot with, with music and I feel like , there have been songs that I've made where I loved them, but they didn't feel, I didn't feel like other people should hear it or something, you know, like that I've made things that I felt were for me and that's a really good Yeah, I know.
Um,
yeah, folks like Rick Rubin talk about creating from that place and it's definitely something I'm really grateful for that reminder. Because usually when I'm working from a production standpoint, it's easier for me to [01:09:00] think from the perspective of what other people want to hear. So that's usually very externally driven, but when I just started writing this song from the Heart, , I just actually opened up as like a channel and a vehicle for creativity, and I felt like that was very much in service to myself.
Quincee: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was just actually listening to the, the podcast that Rick Rubin does with Andrew Huberman.
Michael: Ah, nice. Today. The creative protocols one.
Quincee: Yeah. And preparation for the podcast today. I was, oh,
Michael: I love that.
Quincee: Kind of diving back into some of Rick Rubin's ideas and things that he shared, and he's if you are thinking about the audience during the creation of the thing, it's premature. Mm-hmm. You need to be thinking only about. The thing itself. And then maybe after it's done, you can start to think about the audience and, um, you know, refining it and marketing it, maybe specifically, but like, while you [01:10:00] are creating it is just you and that thing that you are creating.
And do not manipulate it, do not contrive it, which is very interesting to hear from a producer of course. But I, I think that's, yeah, there's something there.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've been trying to, um, acquire and develop workflows and tools that get me out of the computer because of that mindset. I, I must admit, I, I've, I just have not. This song that I just wrote was like the first time I wrote a song all the way through without trying to produce it.
Like just lyrics. Huge accomplishment. Yeah. And way to go. Yeah. Thank you. And so, so before that I've only like really, really mostly, if not only created from the perspective of how is this gonna be hard? What will people think of this? How will they think of [01:11:00] me?
Quincee: I think we've had a little bit of exploration already into the throat, but we'll shift our attention and energy up to this blue. Throat space, and here we explore questions around communication and around listening around expression and around message. I,
I'm curious if there's been any like key conversation along your path thus far that has been sticking with you or feels present with you in this moment. Something that someone has shared with you that has emboldened you or inspired you. Hmm[01:12:00]
Michael: hmm. I think, I think to the one conversation that kind of created the block, that's immediately what I go to. Yeah. That one childhood moment, you know, that wound, because all the times I've had inspirational conversations. It's been a game of whack-a-mole that may have quieted that wound until it popped up somewhere else on another day.
So the, yeah, like I said, the over intellectualizing, the problem solving, the talking about it has never really been the thing to get me over the line. It's, it's really helped see myself, like when the friend told me I was afraid of my own success. That was very, very helpful. Dr. James Hollis, who's a Youngian analyst, and yes. [01:13:00] Also a great Huberman episode.
Yes. Favorite one of the best. Yeah. I
Quincee: think that you turned me onto that episode actually.
Michael: Yeah. I still listen to it like weekly. Oh my God. But he says the, the, one of the hardest and most important things we can do is to ask our loved ones the ways that they see us causing harm to ourselves or others.
Like, Hey, what am I, what am I doing that's harming myself? Or like, like literally asking people to, to tell you.
Quincee: Provide those hard reflections.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Like be the heart, be the, the harshest mirror. And being ready for that.
Quincee: Yeah.
Michael: Um,
Quincee: wow.
Michael: Yeah. And I, on one hand, you can't change people. It's hard enough to change ourselves.
Like imagine how hard it is to change someone else. So I, I respect some of my friends for letting me figure it out. [01:14:00] But on the other hand, a lot of people don't jump into the deep end. Sometimes they gotta get pushed. Sometimes I wish my friends, some of my friends would just be way like, they know, like out of love, like, dude, push me in. Yeah. That, that caused the greatest changes in my life when someone pushed me in the deep end. Who, and again, like, would I have rejected that? A advice or insight, like probably, but you know, save enough times. Maybe that's the right time now. I know to ask though. Yeah.
Quincee: What a powerful question to have in your toolkit. I really appreciate you bringing that in. Mm-hmm. I hope that that helps. At least one person that listens to this, empowers them to go to the people that they love and be [01:15:00] brave enough to ask, how do I harm myself? How do I harm you?
Michael: Because they know. They know it. Think about your best friend. Yeah. And immediately they might not say it. Yeah. Well immediately think about your brother, your sister, your mom, your best friend. Yeah. I bet you could name five ways in which they're harming themselves. Wow. Because it's something we all think about.
It's like, God, I wish they'd stopped doing this. Mm-hmm. Or like. Mm-hmm. Those things are so obvious to people in our lives, but of course not obvious to us 'cause we want to avoid that type of information. But yeah, if you really care about yourself, you should ask those questions. And if they care about you, they'll be honest.
Hopefully.
Quincee: Yeah. I have some big conversations in my future in the next couple of days. I can feel it. Yeah. Hopefully hopeful. That's a good little, hopefully good ones.
Michael: Little toolkit for you.
Quincee: Yeah. Really powerful toolkit. Thank you. Mm-hmm.[01:16:00]
So if you want to bring touch to the space between the eyebrows and this third eye center, just kind of exploring this space and maybe even like opening it as if it were an eye that doesn't have the capacity to open itself. Of bringing attention here. And in this center we're exploring, themes of intuition and insight.
Inspiration also like clairvoyance at the gift level, right? Like this capacity to see into the future. So I wanna step into that, invite you into that in a really playful way. And what this will look like is imagining that you can access and have proficiency in any medium of creation, [01:17:00] whether it be, you know, ceramics or, um, computer building, or sculpture or metalsmithing, any of these things.
Mm-hmm. You have no limits. You're good at everything. What are five things that you would love to create in your lifetime? Just rapid fire 'em off. Mm. Impulsively.
Michael: Well, a, a music album. Like visual artwork videos. Just the, the peripheral pieces of a coherent project. Yeah. And I'm excited to dive into that.
I've challenged myself that I'll be creating all the visual content with just my phone with literally Canva. Like I'm setting some hilarious limitations.
Quincee: I love Canva.
Michael: Yeah. Like, I don't want, like, I want it to rely on the shots that I'm doing with my phone, which relies on what's in the shot. You know, it's all just going to like [01:18:00] the intention.
But, um, I want, this is, this is more of a connection piece, but I still wanna build a car with my dad. Yeah. Yeah. He, he built, he built cars growing up and beautiful. You know, I had to put that to the side when he had eight kids and in further admiration of him painting and sculpting, he was more the visual art side. Um, his grandma was an art teacher, or his mom was an art teacher painter. And he sculpted these beautiful, these beautiful pieces out of wood and out of bronze. And, and I always wanted to follow him in that.
Um,
and then I, yeah, it's. Sounds a bit simpler, [01:19:00] but just a, a nice mug or ceramic. It's perfect. A base, you know, like I just want to create something that I get to use mm-hmm. And make something for myself that, that lasts. And, you know, it's a piece of my world. I would get to build my own world from scratch.
Quincee: Mm.
Michael: So I think that's five. Um,
Quincee: if there's more Yeah. You can bound into them. Maybe even inversing the question like, what's dying to be created through you? Can you discern that?
Michael: Mm,
Quincee: I'm getting Ridley.
Michael: I love it.
Quincee: It's, it's getting late. I'm entering the riddle territory. Oh gosh.
Michael: Yeah. Um, I really want to do collage.
Yeah. My, my good friend fib does, does collage and I, I. I don't think anyone will think I'm [01:20:00] minimizing the art form, but I see it like ambient music where I'm like, that looks so easy. Mm-hmm. And like so accessible where I feel like I could get really good results that I felt good about. There isn't, I don't know, with, like, with painting for example, there's like a lot of technique.
Yeah. Uh, with music, there's a lot of technique as well. And with like things like ambient music or collage, I feel like it's a little easier to walk up and make something meaningful quickly with, without doing it for years, you know? Totally. Yeah. So the accessibility is so attractive with, with taking old magazines and creating a scene.
Um, yeah, so collage then I, I really wanna paint. I. I'm so, yeah. I'm so, I'm so moved by, uh, [01:21:00] by very specific colors.
Yeah. I don't want to paint things that exist. I just want to create new shapes and, and movement and textures
Quincee: ooh. If I can facilitate that in any way, you sure can. I need service. Please allow me. You sure can.
Michael: Please,
Quincee: yes. Oh, maybe I'll bring some paints by.
Michael: Oh my gosh, please.
Yeah. I, I, I have a fantasy of just the perfect day and it. It's making a little music doing and it's of course it's parallel. Play with, yes. With like a partner, but like, make a little music, leave the music on, paint a little bit. Make food.
Quincee: Oh yeah.
Michael: Yeah.
Quincee: That's the dream.
Michael: Yeah. The, the, the sketching, journaling, painting, morning vibe is,
Quincee: I love that.
I love being able to drop into that parallel play space with, with friends. It's the best.
Michael: That's everything.
Quincee: It's, yeah. What we're here to do. Mm-hmm. Beautiful. [01:22:00] Thank you for that exploration. I love, yeah. I love the playfulness that it invites and like, reminds us that there's just, there's little things to, it's not just the big fish that are satisfying.
. Uh, so we reached the end. I was sharing with Zach today that in the yogic tradition, when we get to the crown chakra saada, it's like just silence. There's nothing else to say.
There's nothing to do. There's nowhere to go because we have achieved that state of oneness or liberation. And
I'm curious here[01:23:00]
as we sit in the mystery of this question, the mystery of the space above the head.
A bold question, where do you think creative energy comes from?
Michael: Mm-hmm.
Hmm,
hmm. I believe,
yeah, I believe I, I, I believe that it's, I might have to borrow from another phrase to put words to it, but I feel like creative [01:24:00] energy is the natural motion of the universe. I want to say it's the language of our physical reality. I wanna say it's our birthright. It is what being human is all about and it's our responsibility as well. It's, it's so many things.
If I could like impart one thing on, on as many people as possible, it would be to help them see that that is our unique ability as humans to, to transform things as they pass through us creatively. Like we are vehicles for energetic transformation. An experience can, can pass through us. We can see something, we can, we can hear something, we can think something.
And by then [01:25:00] taking action, we can create it in physical reality. Mm. Because once you realize that, then you realize that actions that you take, create things and Yeah. You know, if I, if I'm taking an action out of fear, I'm gonna create fear. If I take an action out of love, I'm gonna create more love.
So I don't know where it, it's like asking where the wind comes from, you know? It's just,
Quincee: it's mystery. It's
Michael: just going, yeah. It's there and it's moving. You know?
Quincee: It just is.
Michael: Yeah. It's like and, and everyone has it. Everyone can catch it. But yes, my heart breaks for all of those who have been convinced that they aren't creative [01:26:00] or that they can't create, or that it's not their thing because everyone's creative.
It's what being a human is all about.
Quincee: Yeah. Mean we walk each other home towards that knowing that we are all creators, that we're all here to create, that we all have the power to step into conscious creation. Yes. I have nothing to add. Simply beautiful Michael. Mm-hmm. Yes. Thank you so much. And yeah, I guess one last thing is I would love to, I would love to.
Give you the opportunity to share where people can find you?
Michael: Ah, yes. Yeah. Yes. Um, so I make music as Michael, which is Michael, and then TON, all one [01:27:00] word. And you can find me on Instagram as Michael tin dot wave as in WAV. And yeah, that's kind of home base for now.
Quincee: Perfect.
Michael: Yeah. Um, you can physically find me in the acorn where we are right now, uh, many times.
And, but yeah, follow me on, on social media and I'm gonna start rolling out some, some very special music. Geez. Uh, this year we need your music. We
Quincee: need more, Michael. Yeah. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that phrase actually, just from different people in this community. Like, we need more Michael Tin.
Oh my gosh. No way. It's empowering. Yes. We all want more Michael, so, wow. Yeah. May we, may we receive more, Michael?
Michael: You shall I, I will. Thank you, Michael.
Quincee: All right.
Michael: Thank you. Thank you Quincy.
Quincee: Such a joy and a pleasure, and an honor and a duty. [01:28:00] It is, yeah. It is a gift. You were one of the first, first few people I had on my list that I wanted to interview as I, like, as I created this project.
So it's, it's a full circle and really, yeah. Really grateful moment for me, so thank you.
Michael: Wow. I look forward to where our conversations go
Quincee: more and more. Yeah.
Thank you for journeying with me into the Fertile Vision Seed Podcast. From this space, it's my hope that the whisper of inspiration may take root and aid you in your creative path. If this episode resonated with you, I invite you to share it, leave a review, and follow along with us on social media.
Until next time, keep dancing in the dark and cultivating the seeds of your creative vision. Bye-bye.
