11. Zach Puchtel: Spontaneity, Finding One’s Unique Voice, Taking the Leap
“I wanted to celebrate, and I didn't know what that meant.”In this episode of the podcast, we journey into the depths of the creative process with polymath artist Zach Puchtel. Quincee and Zach delve into themes of transmuting sexual energy, the alchemy of creation, the balance of masculine and feminine energies, and finding freedom through vocal improvisation. From personal anecdotes to profound insights on devotion and authentic expression, this episode serves as a tribute to the sacred inspiration that drives artistic magic. Zach shares his unique experiences and philosophies on harnessing creative energy and the transformative power of communal connection through art and music.
00:00 Introduction to the Vision Seed Podcast
00:30 Meet Zach: Polymath Artist and Explorer
01:47 The Power of Sacred Sexual Energy
03:51 Embracing Sensuality and the Sacred Feminine
07:00 The Magic of Improvisational Ceremonies
12:27 Authentic Expression and the Mirror Exercise
26:10 Devotion to Creative Practice
32:07 A Life-Changing Moment: From Basketball to Self-Expression
34:11 Embracing Spontaneous Singing and Freedom
35:22 Challenging Social Norms Through Music
35:55 The Power of Shared Musical Moments
41:13 Exploring Personal Transformation and Roles
48:27 The Interconnectedness of Expression and Listening
57:02 Manifesting Joy and Connection Through Music
59:06 Reflecting on the Source of Creation
01:00:40 Final Thoughts and Farewell
Zach can be found at https://www.instagram.com/zachpuchtel/
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Zach Puchtel
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Vision Seed Podcast, where we gather in the dark beneath the soil with an luminous void from which all creation blooms without our sense of sight. We explore the alchemy of the creative process through intimate conversations with artists and visionaries. Together we embrace the mystery and infinite potential of the unknown.
This is a space to honor the whisper of inspiration in the dance within the blackness that births creative magic. Let's journey into the void.
Quincee: In this episode, I sit down with Zach Tel. Zach is a polymath artist, writer, zetetic, explorer and rememberer. He holds improvisational music ceremonies and believes that through sharing harmony, we can viscerally experience oneness. I met Zach last November when I came to Minnesota and our first time hanging out, we went and plunged in a cold lake.
I have so genuinely enjoyed getting to know Zach, and he's truly expanded my definition of what it means to be a channel through his vocal [00:01:00] improvisation.
You've entered the realm of darkness,
Zach: there is no light entering my sphere. There is no light entering my sphere except through every singular cell,
Quincee: except for, of course, the original light that is wearing.
Zach: There's no sunlight coming into re retinols.
Quincee: This is the first daytime podcast I've ever recorded it's also podcast number 11 . And you can hear birds outside, which is really sweet.
Feeling ourselves anchored into mother earth. Below Father sky, above roots stretching into the center of the earth. And tracing your roots as a creative
Zach: right. So the root chakra is sacred sexual energy. And as a young man, I was very hypersexual. Um, thought that [00:02:00] my ability to have sex with others was my value and my worth. And as I grew, I learned a number of breathing techniques and meditation techniques that helped me channel the sacred energy upwards my spine.
Um. Threw it into my heart and then out into the world, that allowed me to not have to give into sexual impulses, but instead learn how to take that energy and channel it into active creation energy.
Mm-hmm.
And that was one of the biggest shifts of my life when I started making that. And I'm still doing it.
Um, it's a forever process. But knowing that our root and for men, like our, our semen is actual divine spirit energy that we can either waste out into the world through masturbation or porn or what have you. Or it's something that we can hold and harness that [00:03:00] actually does help manifest towards the creative process in an incredible way.
And so my journey into artists and, uh, control and discipline over my root is. It's been a huge part of my journey. Um, and as men, you know, we're given that as kind of a standard that it's about being able to have sex as opposed to it's about being able to hold. And once we learn to hold the access points for creativity, just kind of reveal themself and the creative life happens and life is a dance as opposed to an agenda driven thing.
And um, and that's a big shift for a lot of men I know. And for me especially. So I appreciate you
Yeah.
Tuning into that.
Quincee: Yeah. And I'm sensing this invitation into actual true sensuality versus just sexuality. Mm. I [00:04:00] think we have a very. Sexuality focused culture and not as much a sensuality focused culture that focuses on cultivating our capacity to sense, to feel, to hold, to, to be in the experiencing of the thing rather than the attainment of the thing.
Hmm. Um, yeah, and I think that's crucial is something to cultivate as artists
Zach: It is forever on ongoing. Uh, you kinda hit on that with sensuality and this like softness and gentleness within men and this allowance of the feminine energy to permeate and to, uh, to reveal herself within each of us.
And I'm a fan of the sacred feminine rising. Um, in all people including men. And I think part of this journey, and I know for me has been finding my balance internally of masculine and feminine. And when it comes to [00:05:00] creativity, for me it's a matter of surrendering, which is very much a, a feminine sort of concept, uh, to surrender and then to receive.
And when I, when I'm calm and relaxed and gentle with myself, the creative has access to flow through me. Yeah. As opposed to from the masculine of the penetrative energy or the needing to create or destroy or like do an action. The allowance, that's very much what improv and freestyle is, is like letting it come and not, not needing to control what it happens to be.
And um, and that's part of like the discipline of the sacred energy. And then. And then knowing the feminine and being okay, surrendering and knowing that it doesn't make us weak as men to surrender and be gentle, it actually makes us really strong. Mm-hmm. To be able to tune to our emotions and to know what's going on inside of us
Quincee: [00:06:00] mm-hmm.
Zach: So that we can be present, so that we can shift into higher frames of mental and energetic states of being, um, yeah. What a process. Yeah. All of it's, all of it's really wonderful and, and I'm really happy that I chose a path to like, go at that because I never had the feminine in my operating self as a younger man.
And now to have access to it. Um, I experience peace and creativity and softness and self sensuality where I like, I enjoy my touch, I enjoy being in my skin. I feel good in my body.
Quincee: Hmm.
Zach: And, and I credit a lot of that to. Um, some of the feminine essences that, uh, seem to be a bit more nuanced than a lot of the masculine energy.
Quincee: The goddess is such a teacher.
Zach: There's a fine line I think between performing and offering and [00:07:00] participating. It's the whole knocking down the imaginary fourth wall between the performer and the audience and bringing it back to a tribal offering ceremonious space where we all gather and circle and sing together.
Quincee: Mm-hmm.
Zach: And, um, and those spaces are just like the juiciest, yummies spaces. I know. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and there seems like there's a natural building. Of communal trust when we share authentically about our experience, be it good, bad, ugly, or anywhere in between. And, um, and it gives permission to other people to, to say their part.
Um, so all the different feedback loops and acknowledgement and being witnessed and being seen and heard and held and knowing we're safe, there's, there's just so much goodness to take in, uh, in all of the foldings and unfoldings of improvisational ceremony. Um, and it [00:08:00] becomes a, a bit easier of a task to just trust inherently when we're all like faced up sharing with each other.
Quincee: When I think about the experience of being in a flow ceremony with people, I, I feel like it dissolves hierarchy almost immediately. Mm. Because is so instinctual and boundless.
And, uh, I really love the idea of, you know, going into a space like this and just being allowed to play with others and, and dropping these preconceived notions of what I should say and kind of dissolving the social anxiety that that arises when we perceive hierarchy in our social group and, and our surroundings.
Zach: Totally. It kind of topples the tower of attachment to what we think it's supposed to be, and provides a container where anything is possible. [00:09:00] And in my ceremonies, I like to make it so that nobody ever has to say anything. But they can say anything. And so mm-hmm. There's freedom of choice and there's this choice point, which comes many times during ceremony, where I'll intentionally leave open space in the middle of a, a rhythm or a, a beat or whatever we happen to be doing musically.
And that space for people to choose in willingly. And, and that moment, that choice point, I think in it contains the opportunity and possibility for some of the largest, instantaneous transformation that's available to us. And what it's really doing is asking us if we can say yes to ourself.
Quincee: I love that.
And that inner Yes. That yes I can. Yes, I am. [00:10:00] Yes, I'm worthy. Mm. Yes. My words matter. Yes. Whatever comes will be perfect. Mm-hmm. Yes. I may not know, but I'm leaping anyway.
Yes, yes. Um,
Zach: may sound like a little bit scary, but everyone I've ever seen say yes to themself, um, delivers just some of the most truthful, honest, poetic beauty that I think exists.
Um, 'cause we're really like allowing ourself , to be in the flow , and to see what comes and to be comfortable in the unknown, which I think is a really powerful practice. Um, and then with the creative aspect, like you just never know what's gonna come because there's not time when you're playing in music to overthink things or to, uh, hold back saying things Right.
A lot of that inner filtering is gone and so a lot of rock truths come out [00:11:00] and that's really enjoyable. Yeah,
Quincee: I love that. I know, I remember the first time we did flow it, it ended up being like a, we got to a point where I shared something like really hilariously vulnerable. I was like, I've never shared that with anyone and I never expected to share that with anybody. But within this, this flow context, I was able to bring something up that was in any other way, horribly embarrassing maybe. And like everyone laughed and thought it was so funny and great.
Zach: Yeah, we made some hooks or courses out of it. Didn we, we
Quincee: It was incredible. Um, and
Zach: like, you doing that and just
Quincee: gave everyone permission.
Gave
Zach: everyone just opens up the space and people are like, oh man, there's nothing off limits. Like we're all, we've all done weird stuff. We've all, you know, had experiences that we feel weird sharing. Yeah. Yeah. And that is, that opens up the space for everyone to share anything they want to. So. Mm. I love that.
That's it. You, you kind [00:12:00] of nailed it on your first go. Yeah.
Quincee: Expert mode. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, again, I think, I think we're already starting to speak about some very solar plexus level themes here about confidence and trust in elimination of self-doubt.
And going for it with the expression and trusting that it's gonna land in whatever way it needs to. Mm-hmm. Um, I think I want to get a sense of what, for people listening to this, can they do to increase their capacity to express
in a raw, immediate manner? How do you get in touch with that self-confidence to just let it flow and just trust yourself?
Zach: Yeah. Great question. I'd [00:13:00] say firstly fail a million times. Like, just, just, uh, like whatever it is. And I personally use like, uh, mirror exercises. Um, just say the thing, say the thing you, you've been wanting to say that you're scared of saying whatever.
It's, and I give this to people in free flow context, that'll, there's obviously fear that comes up from time to time and people have self doubts. And the way through that is to express it. And so if you happen to get in your mind and, uh, jam is going and you feel like it's your turn, but internally you're like, I don't think I can, I don't think I will.
Then your freestyle expression is, I'm nervous. I don't think I can, I don't think I will. Something inside of me feels like I can't. And through that expression. You'll [00:14:00] feel the natural light that infuses itself just for you choosing to be authentic. And we were talking about this earlier, but sometimes when you express authentically, other people will not be receptive to it.
Quincee: Mm.
Zach: And so there's a tendency to go back upon our authentic expression, be it a holy no, or some truth, or how a relationship is feeling, or whatever it happens to be. And we'll pull it back because we don't wanna hurt people. Mm-hmm. And I think it's really natural and nobody wants to hurt anybody. And there's this, it's okay for me to feel how I feel regardless.
Of how others feel about how I feel.
Quincee: The feeling sandwich. The feeling sandwich and like the sacred feeling sandwich.
Zach: Yeah. You have a very, like, I, I would imagine aware audience. And so I think, yeah, yeah. Most people know that [00:15:00]
Quincee: they can see where we're pointing.
Zach: Yeah. We're all responsible for our own emotions and that doesn't mean that we can't be kind or compassionate or loving or giving or any of these things.
And we are responsible for holding our vibration, and nobody is responsible for anyone else's. Um, though we can rise or raise each other up and we can help each other and like do good things together, but ultimately it, it comes back to us. So like, how to start the path towards authentic expression is really a matter of, like, for me it's, it's saying wherever you are.
If you're depressed, like looking in the mirror and like owning it and looking yourself in the eye and being like, I'm depressed. Like, I, I want this to shift. I, I would like to not feel depressed. I would like to feel joy. I would like to feel, uh, you know, ecstasy. I would like to feel [00:16:00] higher vibrational, creative.
Goodness. Wow. And connectivity. And mirror for me is like, it's like in this world we can, we can, we have the ability to lie to anyone.
Quincee: Yeah.
Zach: And it's really hard to lie to yourself when you're looking yourself in the eye. Nearly impossible. And so it's like a grounding thing. Like if you're not feeling good, being real with yourself about not feeling good is like, it's really a portal into self expression.
And though it may not feel good in the moment, in my experience, putting name to bad feelings usually alleviates it. Yeah. Uh, right away and allows for new space to be paved.
Quincee: Yeah, it's, I mean, that's the theory of just all psychology, right? Like when we look at something, it begins to soften or awareness itself is, is curative.
Um, there's a couple things, that that brings to [00:17:00] mind for me, this mirror exercise, which is like those moments where you, you step away from a social gathering and you go to the bathroom, see yourself in the mirror. Hmm. And you catch some sort of truth about how you're feeling and then how that juxtaposes with maybe the social mask you're putting on when you go back to the table.
And I think everyone can resonate with that experience of having to like put something on. And I think it's just such a beautiful and sacred permission that you just. Provided and reminded people that they have to go into that space with themselves and say like very plainly what they're seeing.
My mirror has always been painting. And I don't think I've had the courage to look at myself directly, physically in a [00:18:00] mirror, but I've had the courage to put myself onto a canvas and then look at that canvas as if it is a mirror.
And it holds up to me what I'm experiencing in a way that's so much more honest and so much more truthful than I could have accessed otherwise. And I think that as artists, much of what we create. Results and inherently becomes a mirror of our, of our innermost. Hmm. Whether it's a flow and it's momentary and immediate, like what you're creating or whether it's a song or whether it's a painting, it's a snapshot in time and a mirror into hopefully something very honest about ourselves and, uh, gives recognition and awareness to a part that needed it.
Zach: Mm-hmm. So I feel like, um, a painting is like an [00:19:00] extended mirror exercise. You're not like taking five minutes and looking at yourself. You're totally, you're taking hours to like see your angles and project your image of yourself onto canvas and continuously taking it in as you're creating it. Um, and which I think all art is a mirror.
You know, it's like, um, they say about writers that the only thing you can ever write about is yourself.
Quincee: Mm.
Zach: And any story you create is ultimately just a projection of your inner landscape of experience. Yeah. Which I've experienced personally is true. And once we start getting into this mirror thing, like do we see the world as kind? Do we see it as a threat? Do we see people as like a part of the oneness or, or are they being annoying or, or is it both? Yes. Yes. And and that's kinda a trip. 'cause like if we're all one, we're all one.
And thus we're all mirroring each other all the [00:20:00] time. And Yes. And I know we got, we all have. Times and moments of these experiences where you feel connected and you feel like, oh, we're all mirroring each other. And then a lot of time just kind of out in public it, it's harder to remember. Hmm. And like if a person does something, it might bother you or throw you off, or you know, it might not be the most aligned vibrational thing.
And so it's, life is just like a continuous, like where's the mirror sort of exercise. It feels like,
Quincee: I don't remember who the quote is by, I'll have to put it in the show notes. But I think it's, we see the world not as it is, but as we are something like this. I'll have to look that up. But yes, couldn't agree more.
Like I've, I've also experienced that some places actually reflect us back more vividly or immediately. Like there are some [00:21:00] places where you can go where. Maybe you don't feel that immediacy of reflection and others that really feel like these vortexes or portals of that reflection. For me it was Rishikesh in India being there, I was like, wow, my inner state is reflected back to me in the outer almost immediately. And if I go out of the house in a good vibratory state, I'm gonna have a great day. If I go out of the house in a anxious vibratory state, everything in the field is going to, is going to move towards me in a way that makes me feel anxious.
Like it's, it's, you know, quote unquote, like it's triggering towards that, um, towards that inner state. I don't know if you've experienced that. What are those places for you?
Zach: Uh, in and around musicians and artists and people you know, communication is 85%, uh, physical [00:22:00] communication as well as intonation. And it's like 15% what we say with our words. And so like, people who understand vibration. And it's part of this reason, and I've, I've done this to you a couple times, but why I've taken on meowing
Quincee: Yeah.
More
Zach: to people because it's like this, it's this communication that transcends like, hi, how are you? Good to see you, what is going on? And it's like an acknowledgement that we're all here and we're present. And like the energy is meow and and you can hear it. You can feel it if you're tuned. Intonation and vibration.
Yeah. It's what cats say, but like cats put people at ease. So why should I,
as I'm now a good amount? And some people really get it and they feel at ease. And some people are like, why is this large man meow? They're like, all right, dude. [00:23:00] They're like, I back.
Quincee: They're more of like a gu rough person. Yeah. They're more of a meow person. I'm more of a meow guy, you know? More of a squawker myself.
Zach: Yeah. So it's easier to Yeah, I get you though. It's easier to exist in those spaces where, where people are operating from their hearts and listening to vibration as opposed to, uh, being stuck in the mind chatter. Yeah. And I think being in the mind chatter creates a lot of division, has the opportunity too of like this versus that good and bad and all of these, uh, kind of opposite sort of frames of reference, whereas vibration creates harmony.
And it creates a connection and it creates remembrance. And so, yeah, for me it's, it's people who, who like to vibrate and make noise and, and play, it's obviously much easier. Yeah.
Quincee: Beautiful. Mm-hmm.
So I would invite us to drift our center of [00:24:00] awareness up into the heart space. I feel like we've kind of already been here, the whole conversation because before dropping in, we had some really beautiful cacao that that opened us up and created some effervescence here. But the heart space, the heart chakras associated with the color, green growth, expansion, healing, love, compassion.
Mm. I kind of, I'm feeling called to just have you like free associate and just rap on what this means to you today.
But
Zach: you put to do like a little beat thing,
About the talk inside. I gotta do it all to stay alive, love come and turn me. That makes me drive. I gotta be now not strive for something else. [00:25:00] Some of the place, everything is God's love and grace. If it breaks, we'll build it back stronger. Keep the gold on the inside, let goes on longer. When I didn't know where Mr.
Center heart shut. Come through one, never mean to you of pressing buttons, just beating of this light. A light
Quincee: that
Zach: you shine your light or catches shadows. Light, right? Yeah. Right and wrong. I'd rather ring a gun and be the vibration and the dancing song. Getting past, I'm the separation paper Dimes. Bring your back together.
Choose to live our lives in harmony and play in love and joy. And next to see every month of father screaming boy Ha.
Quincee: Awesome. The gong line that lit me up. I'm like,
Zach: that was really good. Your beat was great.
Quincee: Oh, thanks. [00:26:00] Yeah, your flow was great. Thanks. I appreciate it. Yeah.
Zach: Uh,
Quincee: yeah. The question that I love to ask here?
It has to do with devotion. Hmm. And wow, I'm noticing so much electricity from, from that improv. It was really so great. I'm like buzzing with, with just like joy and excitement. Uh, so inspiring. Mm-hmm. I'm curious what you do vote this creative practice too. Who is this for and what is this for and why?
Why do it?
Zach: Uh, it's for God.
Quincee: Yeah.
Zach: It's for me. I am God. You are God. We are all God. Uh, I spent years getting past my conditioning, programming, separation, and I started meditating. And through [00:27:00] psychedelics and a number of other practices, I, I just kinda started formulating this alternative view of how I can live my life.
With as much joy as possible, because if I'm gonna be here and I'm gonna be living this physical go around, like I want to have a good time. I, I want, I want to be present, I want to, I want to feel heights of vibration and I want to share those states so that we can all walk home together. And so it was something that kind of naturally started when I was living in Los Angeles.
And I, I tried every, I was there for 12 years and I, I tried as many different artistic mediums and medicines and meditations and chantings as I could just 'cause I wanted flavors of all of it. Um, and I learned to find value in like all of the different teachings and [00:28:00] mediums and the highest vibrational state that I experienced was my own true expression in the now.
And, and when I would do it, people would get lit and I'd get lit and, and it'd be impromptu jam sessions in the middle of the street and like at, at parties and before I started doing this, parties when I was younger were like, hold a glass of alcohol and like, talk about something. And, and I just got tired of that.
And I wanted, I wanted to,
and so my, my art is aimed at allowing us all to remember. Whatever that looks like. Whatever it feels like, and getting past the wrong and the right of it, and just existing in the, the dance of it. Um, and, and that's why like Bobby McFaren is such a, such an inspiring character. 'cause he's in [00:29:00] stadiums of people creating instantaneous harmony with 40,000 people and everyone gets to have that feeling of togetherness and, um, I mean, Jacob Collier, there's a couple other artists I really look up to PGE who makes up everything on the spot.
And it's, it's just such high vibration. Goodness. It's so
Quincee: good. I get chills just thinking, yeah, I got goosebumps right
Zach: now. Oh. And, and it's undeniable. You know, it's just like this high level plateau, um, where we can all be and we can all exist and, and remember that these higher states of frequency are available in every moment if we so choose.
Um, so yeah, I think that's, I think that covers it of like what the arts for, it's for us. Yeah. It's for we
Quincee: mm. For we mm-hmm. I love the, I love the sampling that has been done. Like the fact that you [00:30:00] entered into, you know, this life in Los Angeles, I, I'm assuming after living and growing up in Minneapolis, right?
Yeah. And you go in with so much curiosity towards different practices and substances and people and like you're in this like big this inspiration of like, oh my God, what are all these different ways that I could touch the oneness, the wholeness, the godness. And then like, there was a moment of like holding the breath and like refining and realizing, oh my gosh, it's immediacy that I wanna share.
And now you're. In this phase of life of exhaling that medicine back out into the world and like you really went out there and got nourished and like fed yourself on all of the things and tried everything without fear, inhibition and understood your preferences. You know? Okay. I don't prefer going to a party and standing around with a glass in my hand, and that's not the way I access celebration.[00:31:00]
That's, that's a really powerful knowing. And yeah, I'm, I'm excited to share this with one person in particular I met her at a contact improvisation festival in Italy and she was sharing beautiful vocal improvisation workshops
and getting to experience that nowness and that oneness with her and a group of people and step into and feel and know that, wow, we're actually very powerful and we can sing beautifully as a group. Like none of us have to be, vocalists in order to create something beautiful harmonically with a group of people and something powerful and tribal and rhythmic.
And, um, getting to play within that was, was just so powerful. So I'm excited to, to weave the two of you together.
Zach: Yeah. Cool. I like that.
Quincee: Yeah.
Zach: I appreciate the acknowledgement of like, going to take the in breath in Los Angeles.
And I just want to note that like, the reason [00:32:00] I felt the call to go to Los Angeles was because I had absolutely no idea who I was.
Quincee: Mm.
Zach: Um. And was confused in all the ways of like, who I am and that question of identity. And, um, at the time was playing basketball, uh, in Israel actually still, like in the, in a very like hyper masculine mindset.
And I had a synchronistic moment that shifted everything that I'd just love to share. Yes, please. That, uh, you know, I, I was playing basketball and I, I took a shot to the chest, um, which knocked the wind out of me and ended up taking me to the hospital. And I went to the hospital and, uh, they decided to get X-rays and, and I was just kind of like, had that like sunken heart contracted feeling and was questioning why I was playing basketball and felt really meaningless.
Like I wasn't contributing, like I was just part of this circus game of like putting balls in hoops for like one [00:33:00] city to have a temporary boost in ego over another city. And I was like, what? Like, is this my gift? Like putting a ball in a hoop? And I remember walking to the X-ray room and the X-ray technician was singing, uh, marriage of Figaro by Mozart, and I mean like full blast power opera, singing you like, oh, incredible.
And it's like a dream. And it was a dream and it was, it was like a movie moment. And he was just singing just unabashedly, uninhibitedly, uh, and filled the room up with this, this colorful hue that I knew in that moment that I was never gonna play sports again. Whoa. Um, because he was exuding this self-expression that I didn't even know that I needed or wanted until that moment.
And just hearing his freedom in singing, I was like, I was like, this is it. And the next year I, [00:34:00] you know, I never played basketball again professionally. Um, and I moved to LA the next year and was like, I just. I need to find it for me. Whatever that vibration was, that self. Yes. Like for him to just be able to spring into opera because he feels so inspired to do it.
Oh my God. Like that energy. Like I, after 12 plus years of experimenting and failing plenty of times and playing plenty of times, like I, I can now sing whenever I want. And if I'm walking down the street and I get inspired by a bird, I can make up a song about a bird. I love that. And I can hum and I can be silly and, and I've mm-hmm.
I've gained some of that freedom. So, um, just for people who, who feel like, you know, they, they may be missing something, just know it's always available and, uh, and like, just keep, keep going at it, whatever it is. And like it'll, yeah. You'll get that thing.
Quincee: I just, there have been [00:35:00] so many. Beautiful and silly and magical moments in my life when I dare to like walk down the street and just sing.
Mm-hmm. Or like whistle hum. I, I've been making bird sounds a lot. Mm-hmm. I found that , I was really needing, when I was walking around UD to make bird sounds, to like calm myself as I walked. Because sometimes the traffic was a little intense and people like always said something like, I never went out doing that without having someone be like, oh, nice.
Sounds it's, it's strange that our default when walking down the street is to be silent. Right.
Zach: And like, not look each other in the eye and like
Quincee: not Yeah. Express towards one another.
Like, I, I wanna challenge that Norm. Um, I
Zach: love that I do that in grocery stores Yes. All the time. Because I, I feel like that some of that energy can be present in grocery stores. Mm-hmm. And so I'll, I'll dance mm-hmm. And just like, move around. And I remember one time I was at, it might have been Whole Foods or another grocery store, [00:36:00] and Alanis Morrisette, you ought to know is playing.
Quincee: Oh yeah.
Zach: And like, you know, the, the societal norm is like, you don't sing in public. Mm-hmm. Like, keep your mouth shut, like stay quiet. But I was just feeling the groove. So I started singing the song and I was just, you know, like up and down the aisles. . Right as the chorus, the you oughta know part came, I was reaching into like the almond milk thing to get, to get an almond milk. And, and like, I wanna say like 50-year-old ish old woman came up and we shared the last like, oughta know, like, oh, as we were there.
And it was just like this moment, 'cause she was singing and I was singing electrifying. And we were just like to like, not only are we allowed, but we just created like that moment of synchronicity Totally. And togetherness. And then we just like, po parted, you know, it was just like, there's just like one of those little moments that happened of like another perfect person who's stretching into the infinite possibility for expression in every moment.
Quincee: Oh, I love it. I love it so much. [00:37:00] It's so great.
Zach: I love that you sing just randomly makeup things. That's just it.
Quincee: Of course, of course. I remembering a really fun moment of last summer around the same time where. Uh, it was right after the concert and a bunch of people were leaving the concert and like walking down this big hill, I was at a music festival in Stanley, Idaho and it was dark and we were all walking down the hill.
It's kind of a country music festival, and one man said, yay ha out in the dark, just hollered into the dark, lobbed it into the air, and the whole hill came alive. Was, yeah. Yeah. And then we started like doing variations on the Yeehaw, and it was, it was awesome. Mm-hmm. I'm not a cowboy. I don't really like country music, but I loved that.
That's a good yha. You
Zach: can't turn down a good, yeehaw,
Quincee: you can't just turn down a good yee, huh?
Zach: Yeah. It's like we're all, we're all kind of wolves in a wolf pack, and I feel like [00:38:00] everyone wants to howl all the time. And it's like,
Quincee: oh,
Zach: it's true. It, it reminds me of that video of, uh. There's a YouTube video of the dance, the guy who's dancing alone.
Mm-hmm. And then it's like a social experiment and they've made a TED Talks into it or whatever. But then like everyone's kind of looking at it and be like, who's the dude dancing all alone? And then the second person goes up and joins him and gives like. Social proof and credit. Mm-hmm. That they can dance.
And then this like wave of people. Oh yeah. That turns into like two, 300 people start just like running towards this guy.
Quincee: People want that and
Zach: people want that. And so like to be the first interrupter
Quincee: Oh yeah.
Zach: You know, to be the one who's willing to go, I'm willing to sing, I'm willing to dance, I'm willing, I know there's all these like stories and pressure that I'm not supposed to and you can't, and it's weird and whatever.
But that inner Yes. Of like, I'm going to trust what feels good and I'm going to do it. Like inevitably just shows us that we all want that.
Quincee: Oh yeah.
Zach: And [00:39:00] sometimes it just takes that inner courage that just like, yes, I can. Yes, I will. Here we go, sort of thing. And someone spots off a Yeehaw and all of a sudden it's just like a celebration of country loving, which is great.
No,
Quincee: I'm like wiggling around with joy and delight right now. I'm so, so here for this, it's like you put up your hand, you flag yourself as a willing channel. Mm. To that sacred impulse. Mm. Of like, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna be brave and make the noise, and like, I'm gonna be brave and say the thing.
And then it's like that lightning is is magic and it's attractive and it flashes and it, uh, draws the eyes of others. And, and then the participation of others. And I don't want anyone to doubt their capacity to be that channel. Hmm. I don't want anyone to doubt their capacity to throw up their hand for the lightning to strike and for them to say the thing and then be absolutely blown away by the support that it creates around them.
Zach: Totally. And that's [00:40:00] kind of the leap of faith. Mm-hmm. The saying. Yes. . And I've experienced that almost every time I've done it. And I've jumped into freestyles thousands of times. And when I first started doing it, I wouldn't really leap, I'd kind of dip my toe in and it would be, and the more just like full-hearted, you can just say yes to your own joy.
That, I mean that every time that happens, it, everyone feels it. Everyone gets, uh, electrified and, and it feels present. It feels like suddenly the, the shackles of normality are broken and we get to actually be joy and present with each other. So yeah, the more loving interrupters we can get in this world, like all about it.
Mm.
Quincee: I love that.
Zach: Hmm.
Quincee: And treating, yeah, treating the world as a stage of, of play. It just might become one.
Zach: Shakespeare might be right. It might be a stage after all. [00:41:00] Yeah. Which it is, you know? And like we all play our parts in our roles. And being conscious, I remember like being conscious that we do play roles in acts, I think is a big kind of like beginning step and Oh, totally.
I remember when I first took psychedelics, I looked in a mirror and I saw the,
Quincee: oh no, you made the cardinal mistake. Oh no. I made the greatest
Zach: choice I've ever the greatest choice. Um, I mean, it was shocking, but I, I saw that I was playing a role. I saw that I was playing this hyper-masculine jock character, um, and that it was just an act and that it was just something I had been taught and conditioned into as to how to operate in this world.
And once I saw that one, uh, I was like, oh, okay, that's an act. And I didn't get it all the first time, but. Yeah. I've taken on a lot of acts, a lot of different roles in my life because we can,
Quincee: yeah.
Zach: Because they're all like different parts of our being and character, and I think it's important to recognize our acts and then choose our acts.
Totally. Um, because if there's no act, that's the thing. That's like, [00:42:00] if there's no act, then we're all just like levitating awareness consciousness. And there's like not the physical aspect and like as much as I want to acknowledge the physical as an illusion, like it's here and I'm in a body. Yeah. And so while we're here, like we, we should just pick the most fun acts I think.
Quincee: I totally agree. Yeah. I've, I've had this conversation on this podcast before and I do think it was Ram Dass was sharing something about like. In order to give up your ego, first you have to have an ego worth giving up. And sort of like this idea of like choosing your costume, like get cozy in your avatar.
Like you come into this world as a naked body with awareness and like, then everything else is just like up to you. So, uh, might as well have fun. I mean, of course, I, I say that with acknowledgement that not everything is up to you. Of course, the, the circumstances of your childhood and everything you encounter in the first, you know, several years [00:43:00] of your life is, is uh, deeply, deeply formative as to the person you become.
But when we wake up to that autonomy of choosing the avatar, um, it's fun to play with.
Zach: So that's interesting. And we were talking masks earlier and like just authenticity in general, and then you brought up Ramdas.
Quincee: And
Zach: Ramdas for me is like the great example of like taking all the masks off. Because he was like a Harvard professor with Timothy Leary and they gave psychedelics to students.
And, uh, Richard Albert Albert was his name, and he took a bunch of mushrooms and reached all sorts of beautiful states, and then eventually realized that he wanted to do it sober without the help of medicine. And he went over and found his guru in India, and then he came back and he was Bob Ramdas.
Mm-hmm. No longer Richard Alpert. And, and there's that like, enlightened state of being of awareness that kind of feels massless. And so like we all play roles and we all choose acts. [00:44:00] And, um, that, that just kind of like lingers in my psyche. It's like, what if we all dropped all of the masks? Like, what would that look like?
Like would we, having nobody, what if we were all nobody? You know? Yeah. We didn't have to take on artist roles or play. It was just like an awareness game. And we all just added our awarenesses. We went and
Quincee: mm-hmm.
Zach: It kind of feels like we're. Getting back there through art and through just the expansion of consciousness and people becoming more aware of themselves and their feelings and all of it.
Um, but maybe it's possible not to play any act. I don't, I don't know. I haven't gotten to that place yet.
Quincee: Yeah. Having glimpsed it, it's, it's intoxicating. But, , I don't think , I've been able to achieve a stabilized nobody ness. Mm. Or lessness. And it's definitely a curiosity I have.
Zach: That's it. It's the stability of nothingness because we have all had [00:45:00] enlightened experiences, moments of clarity.
Quincee: Mm-hmm.
Zach: And to have that be stable and sustainable as like default mode of operation. Of just like completely aligned with source energy and awareness, without desire or attachment or need or whatever it is. Um, beautiful spaces.
Quincee: Yeah. Yeah.
Zach: But you don't, you don't often see like enlightened yogis playing music or sometimes you do.
I guess.
Quincee: Yeah. I was just gonna say
Zach: Guru G plays, he's got some beautiful music.
Quincee: Yeah. And being in, in India, there's a lot of, at least in Rishikesh, a lot of the SAS and, and Babas there are walking around with drums or flutes and our singing or are participating in, you know, or devotional singing. And actually, I'm thinking of this one really adorable swami who walks [00:46:00] around Rishikesh and he has a giant Bluetooth speaker like slung around his shoulder.
Yeah. And last time I was there, the speaker. This was actually such a funny story. I'm so glad you brought this in. I forgot about this. Oh my gosh. The delight of this. So he was walking around with this massive Bluetooth speaker listening to, of course, like playing, playing, uh, devotional music. But the speaker was dying and the speaker was making these really loud, like chirps of low battery.
So it'd be like, you know, some really beautiful, vibrant like music and then it would be like low battery. And it was so loud. It was like rippling down the whole street. And, um. My friend and I like approached him and asked him if he, if he could charge a speaker, like did he have a cord to charge a speaker?
And he was like, I actually don't have a car, a cord to charge the speaker. [00:47:00] Will you buy one for me? Of course. We, we got him a cord and the next day we had uninterrupted devotional music bellowing down the street. But it was so funny and you
Zach: can just hear like, oh, battery. Exactly that.
So you charged, you charged up the yog. That's nice.
Quincee: Yeah, it was a beautiful moment. He's the modern yogi. He's the modern yogi with the Bluetooth boombox.
Zach: Yeah. Why not? If it projects further and lets more people hear this whole concept of like devotional music and medicine, music, I think, uh, a lot of times, uh, it's not introduced to people in their lives.
Like I grew up on like classic rock and hip hop and, um. You know, alt rock and these sort of things. But not until I started doing medicine and, and finding these pockets of spiritual community was I really introduced to medicine, music.
Quincee: Mm.
Zach: And medicine music's one of those vibrations, chanting mantras and otherwise that feels devotional to God.
And that when we all sing together, [00:48:00] once again, it's, it's that oneness essence nobody's putting on like the show. It's, we're simply communing together in vibration. Um, so I'm sure a lot of you listeners listen to medicine music, but, uh, that's kind of where like I'm currently creating is in the mixture of hip hop and medicine, music.
Quincee: Mm-hmm.
Zach: Which just feels right.
Quincee: Yeah.
Zach: Yeah.
Quincee: Well, you've already thoroughly and completely answered a lot of the questions I was going to dive into here with like the throat and the, the blue and the center that's associated with communication and connection. And, um, deep listening and expression. I feel like I have a sense of what you are trying to share with, with your creation, but is there anything else that feels relevant in, in terms of the throat, like key conversations that you [00:49:00] feel have uplifted you other than of course being sung to by your x-ray technician?
Zach: Yeah, it's always, I remember when I was searching, I moved to LA and I decided to do ayahuasca for the first time, and that was a really transcendent moment for me. Um, because I went in with the intention and I was 27 at the time, and I went in with the intention of just like, why am I here?
Like, what's the point? You know, like where's the meaning in life? Am I supposed to just like get a job and get a house and like have kids and. And like, why am I here? And it was really beautiful. And I actually experienced the, like, the essence of Mama IA floating over me and like taking the intention out of my mind and then replanting it.
And the message was to share your voice. And, and I remember being more [00:50:00] confused than I'd ever been in that moment. I was like, what is that
Quincee: classic of the universe to answer your question with another question, right? And
Zach: I was just like, I don't like how, um, so I just started trying things. I went out and I did spoken word.
I, I went on the street and I busked and I played for people outside. I, I joined bands. I, I got a theater production. I started writing scripts. I, and then eventually started freestyling. And just like I. I wanted to just expand it all and see what felt good. And sometimes when, when there's like a stagnation or, um, it feels like a standstill or something static, like learning something or trying something you haven't tried before feels like, it feels like some of the best exercises we can do.
'cause it just lights up the brain. It [00:51:00] triggers all sorts of, uh, learning opportunities and pathways that we may not have known existed. We meet new people, we connect, we think in different ways. And so for me, the whole like freedom of voice and expression thing has just been a way to learn who I be and who we be.
And, and every, I mean, there have been so, so many synchronistic moments along the way of people and. Places and messages and I, I'm at a place where like, I think we're all so interconnected that we're speaking to each other even when we're not like consciously or intentionally doing it a hundred percent, but it's like our subconscious is doing it.
And so like I walk, I'll take a walk around the lakes and this thing occurs that, uh, uh, it's called Sidewalk Oracles. Hmm. I dunno if you've ever heard that. Say
Quincee: Moore. I'm of course interested in Oracle. All things are regular.
Zach: Yeah. Sidewalk Oracles is like, say you're walking along [00:52:00] with by yourself and you're passing two people and they're having a conversation and whatever they happen to be saying in the moment is they pass you, is perfectly applicable to your life in some way, shape, or form.
Yeah. Where it's like, oh my God, did you hear that sort of thing.
Quincee: Mm.
Zach: And I experienced that a lot. Hmm. And, and I've flipped it on its head, and I, I won't like intentionally contour messages as I'm like going by people. You're like, you need to hear this thing. Hmm. Um, I won't do that, but I will, I will take account of what I'm saying as I pass people and I also take account of what other people are saying is they pass me.
Quincee: That's very cool. Yeah.
Zach: And, and it just seems so interconnected at this point that like the synchronicities are, are never ending and, and just always, and, and so it's listening. It's just really listening and it's listening even beyond what people are saying, but how they're [00:53:00] saying it, because that's what they're really saying is in their vibration.
And that for me is, has been all of the shifting I used to. Talk a lot and I'm, I'm actually, I think more quiet these days and I've learned to really enjoy listening. And the more that I listen, the more I learn about me.
Quincee: Mm.
Zach: And, and I used to think that I had to like, teach other people how to be, but I really didn't know how to be.
And it probably came from a really insecure place of like, uh, needing to think that I had all of the answers. And the more that I've let go of that and just the, the easier learning has become. Um, because there's messages everywhere. There's messages in every leaf, every tree, every intonation, every gust of [00:54:00] wind.
Yeah. If, if we listen close enough. Um, so that just like intense. Listening, quieting the inner self in order to take in that, which is, um, and that's kinda like the same energy of freestyling is quieting the self and listening for what wants to come. And it always comes. It's never not come. Um, when like there's stillness and presence with it.
Like it's always there, which like part of the fear is like, oh my God, there nothing's gonna be there. Yeah. But there always is. It's always been there. And, and I, I see that as kind of like a is source kind of like winking and being like, yeah, we got you. We're not going anywhere. Like we've always been here.
Always will be here. Wow. You know, we definitely got you here and now.
Quincee: Yeah. To listen, there's, yeah, [00:55:00] there's a. A group of us, my sound community, people who I like, trained in, in sound with, and our group is called to listen, is to love deeply. And I'm feeling the significance of that phrase as you share this. And I think that that is my ethos with this podcast. That's my intention.
That's why I'm here. I want to not only learn through the deep and beautiful shares of the people in my life who I look up to creatively, but I also want to to love through my listening. Hmm. And I want to create opportunities for other people to hear things that open them to different dimension of love for self and [00:56:00] love for other, and.
Ultimate recognition that there is no difference. Um, that's my, my intention with this container. So thanks for listening to you Walked me home to that purpose just now.
Zach: Yeah.
Quincee: So thank you so much. Mm-hmm. I'm, yeah. I'm giving you a big energetic hug for that. Thank you so much. Mm-hmm. Nail? Yeah. Big nail moment.
Big nail. The meal is of,
so we're gonna shift attention upwards to the third eye center. You can bring the fingers to the space between the eyebrows or just feel into this space and this indigo color of intuition and inspiration of. Clairvoyance at the, the gift [00:57:00] level. And, uh, one thing that I've been asking folks to do in this energy center, which I really have been loving 'cause it's playful and it's also a kind of AraC, is if you wouldn't mind throwing out a list of things that you would like to create in this lifetime
Zach: mm-hmm.
Alignment
Quincee: mm-hmm.
Zach: With source, through that manifestation. Um, large gatherings, concert offerings of shared improvisational, harmonic givings.
Uh, I aim to create as much nowness musical joy as I'm capable of and including as many people in that as I can. [00:58:00] And, um, I have faith that whatever it looks like will be perfect and however many stadiums or stages or circles or gatherings, um, as are called to it will be. And I really, I want to follow my joy and I want to share that with others so that we might remember it together and that we can have the frequency, the shared frequency of inner knowledge that we are all here together.
With a shared spiritual origin and essence,
and I want to do it with as much joy, play love and realness as possible, and, and that feels like an opportunity for us all to walk home [00:59:00] together.
Quincee: Oh, hmm
hmm.
The crown chakra or ra, when you read about it in yogic texts. There is no sound for it.
It is silence. There's nothing left to say.
Typically, I ask people here where they think the energy of creation comes from.
I also feel like you've kind of answered it with your last statement.
Is there anything you wanna add in this center
Zach: where the energy of creation comes from? I, I think. And I don't know. That's a wrap, but, but
Quincee: I think, and I don't know. [01:00:00] No, I have, I
Zach: have words. I have words on it. I'm joking and, and I stick by. I don't know. Um, and I think it is, and we are, and I don't, I don't think it comes from anywhere. I, I think it all is including us and we, and we have the opportunity to, to tune into that reality and to be the source which we are.
Quincee: Thank you so much.
I have no words. Thank you. And maybe Yeehaw.
Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, there's, there actually is one thing. Um, for folks who listen to this and they want to find you, how do they find you? How do they get in touch with you if they are dying to have a conversation or dying to have a flow session or dying [01:01:00] to hire you to perform in front of a stadium of 10,000 people?
Zach: Yeah. Uh, Zach p tell.com. Mm-hmm. Website, and I'm on Insta and Facebook. Zach Tel. Z-A-C-H-P-U-C-H-T-E-L.
Quincee: Perfect.
Zach: Mm-hmm.
Quincee: Zach, thank you for being here.
Zach: Quincy, it's a pleasure. Thank you for holding this space, for allowing for the, like, real navigation of artistic process. Thank you.
Quincee: I knew you were gonna have just so much to teach me.
I love that I created this space to hear it. It's on the plane.
Thank you for helping me know, know this experience more and know myself more. And yeah, just really so awesome, so awesome to be connected in this way and to have this, um, immortalized digitally.
Zach: Shoot. Keep growing. Keep playing.
Quincee: So good, so good.
Thank you [01:02:00] for journeying with me into the Fertile Vision Seed Podcast. From this space, it's my hope that the whisper of inspiration may take root and aid you in your creative path. If this episode resonated with you, I invite you to share it, leave a review, and follow along with us on social media.
Until next time, keep dancing in the dark and cultivating the seeds of your creative vision. Bye-bye.
